Comments on: Towards human circuit analysis, for clinical benefit? http://neurodudes.com/2006/03/29/towards-human-circuit-analysis-for-clinical-benefit/ at the intersection of neuroscience and AI. Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:44:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Ed Boyden http://neurodudes.com/2006/03/29/towards-human-circuit-analysis-for-clinical-benefit/#comment-1367 Ed Boyden Mon, 03 Apr 2006 07:24:13 +0000 http://neurodudes.com/?p=256#comment-1367 > Just to develop on this. One of the exciting thing about > actual brain stimulation is to allow the devleopment of > testable hypotheses about brain circuitry. This allows to > predict outcomes and then test them out it a much more > controlled way. Absolutely. Especially, noninvasive methods of stimulation could be very useful as screening methods for deep stimulation methods. For example, transcranial magnetic sitmulation (TMS), which can be done presurgically, could be useful in principle for screening many candidate sites for stimulation using more enduring methods (deep brain stimulation with implanted, low-voltage electrodes). This could open a whole new field of interventional brain stimulation. > Just to develop on this. One of the exciting thing about
> actual brain stimulation is to allow the devleopment of
> testable hypotheses about brain circuitry. This allows to
> predict outcomes and then test them out it a much more
> controlled way.

Absolutely. Especially, noninvasive methods of stimulation could be very useful as screening methods for deep stimulation methods. For example, transcranial magnetic sitmulation (TMS), which can be done presurgically, could be useful in principle for screening many candidate sites for stimulation using more enduring methods (deep brain stimulation with implanted, low-voltage electrodes). This could open a whole new field of interventional brain stimulation.

]]> By: Neville http://neurodudes.com/2006/03/29/towards-human-circuit-analysis-for-clinical-benefit/#comment-1366 Neville Mon, 03 Apr 2006 04:35:09 +0000 http://neurodudes.com/?p=256#comment-1366 I don't know if this post was triggered by <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/02/magazine/02depression.html" rel="nofollow">today's NYT Magazine article on DBS to treat "untreatable depression".</a> Mayberg is interviewed in the article, which focuses on stimulation of area 25 as a network foci for depression. Also, I like the long-range thinking of how neuromedicine improvments mimic neuroscience improvements, i.e. how focal, low-voltage DBS of Area 25 is like a more targeted form of electroconvulsive shock theraphy (100V over the whole brain). What's the next step? Targeting specific cells? I don’t know if this post was triggered by today’s NYT Magazine article on DBS to treat “untreatable depression”. Mayberg is interviewed in the article, which focuses on stimulation of area 25 as a network foci for depression.

Also, I like the long-range thinking of how neuromedicine improvments mimic neuroscience improvements, i.e. how focal, low-voltage DBS of Area 25 is like a more targeted form of electroconvulsive shock theraphy (100V over the whole brain). What’s the next step? Targeting specific cells?

]]> By: Chris Allan http://neurodudes.com/2006/03/29/towards-human-circuit-analysis-for-clinical-benefit/#comment-1365 Chris Allan Mon, 03 Apr 2006 04:05:34 +0000 http://neurodudes.com/?p=256#comment-1365 Just to develop on this. One of the exciting thing about actual brain stimulation is to allow the devleopment of testable hypotheses about brain circuitry. This allows to predict outcomes and then test them out it a much more controlled way. Chris Just to develop on this. One of the exciting thing about actual brain stimulation is to allow the devleopment of testable hypotheses about brain circuitry. This allows to predict outcomes and then test them out it a much more controlled way.

Chris

]]> By: Chris Allan http://neurodudes.com/2006/03/29/towards-human-circuit-analysis-for-clinical-benefit/#comment-1364 Chris Allan Mon, 03 Apr 2006 04:01:59 +0000 http://neurodudes.com/?p=256#comment-1364 Hi Excellent post on a growing field. You hit the nail on the head when you talk about identifying the circuitry. Much of the fMRI identifies local hot spots of cognitive activity but not so much about the integrated circuitry of behaviour etc. You cite the Mayberg ‘s et al paper as an example of brain stimulation. This was a very small study and in reality only two of the six really got good recoveries from the stimulation. Two did OK and two did not. Our ability to generalise from this is limited although just out in the AJP is a brief paper indicating the ability to predict who will respond to psychotherapy based on the activity level of the cingulate gyrus. see http://gandalwaven.typepad.com/psychology_and_the_singul/2006/04/brain_scans_pre.html I suspect what we will begin to see is not single focussed situation but multiple focussed stimulation of different points either in parallel or serially. It just get better and better. Regards Chris Allan http://gandalwaven.typepad.com/psychology_and_the_singul/ Hi

Excellent post on a growing field. You hit the nail on the head when you talk about identifying the circuitry. Much of the fMRI identifies local hot spots of cognitive activity but not so much about the integrated circuitry of behaviour etc.

You cite the Mayberg ‘s et al paper as an example of brain stimulation. This was a very small study and in reality only two of the six really got good recoveries from the stimulation. Two did OK and two did not. Our ability to generalise from this is limited although just out in the AJP is a brief paper indicating the ability to predict who will respond to psychotherapy based on the activity level of the cingulate gyrus.

see
http://gandalwaven.typepad.com/psychology_and_the_singul/2006/04/brain_scans_pre.html

I suspect what we will begin to see is not single focussed situation but multiple focussed stimulation of different points either in parallel or serially. It just get better and better.

Regards
Chris Allan
http://gandalwaven.typepad.com/psychology_and_the_singul/

]]> By: Dan Dright http://neurodudes.com/2006/03/29/towards-human-circuit-analysis-for-clinical-benefit/#comment-1362 Dan Dright Mon, 03 Apr 2006 01:23:47 +0000 http://neurodudes.com/?p=256#comment-1362 The brain-stimulation-for-depression-thing most certainly has my attention, though if one stands back and thinks about it, it seems to be a more focused version of ECT (shock therapy) which shows a similar success profile for TR Depression. The vagus nerve stuff is pretty neat, too. Unfortunately, I think the public has been pretty stigmatized by the frontal lobotomy fiasco of the 20th century, and rightly so, so psychosurgery is going to have an uphill battle to win the hearts and minds of the average joe and jane. Nice post. The brain-stimulation-for-depression-thing most certainly has my attention, though if one stands back and thinks about it, it seems to be a more focused version of ECT (shock therapy) which shows a similar success profile for TR Depression. The vagus nerve stuff is pretty neat, too. Unfortunately, I think the public has been pretty stigmatized by the frontal lobotomy fiasco of the 20th century, and rightly so, so psychosurgery is going to have an uphill battle to win the hearts and minds of the average joe and jane.

Nice post.

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